Pull up a chair, friends, this might be a long one.
A few weeks ago, I responded to a troll-ish comment on one of my Instagram posts, which resulted in an exchange that, while not in itself particularly interesting, did spark the inspiration for this post. Quoted in its entirety, the original comment was “too much botox”. I will admit that my assumptions about its author’s intentions were based primarily on the context (I was talking about my hair in the post in question), the individual’s anonymous profile, and their previous commenting history on my account. I normally don’t respond to comments of this kind, but I was feeling salty that morning and replied in that spirit. I was somewhat surprised when, the next day, the anonymous commenter responded, though the tenor of their response was predictable. [You can see our entire exchange on my post from March 1, 2019 if you wish.] What I think I was supposed to take from it was that this person was a better feminist (and possibly a better parent) than me. Bless her/his/their heart.
Let me say this straight up: Botox is not a feminist choice. Botox is not an unfeminist choice. Feminism is not a value system.
Got your attention? Good. Let’s proceed.
I have read that trolls tend to be good at targeting people’s weak spots; if so, my Instagram commenter is not a very good troll. I don’t care what people think about the way I dress or look (which is not to say that rude comments are not hurtful). I am not invested in the “wokeness” Olympics. If there is one thing I am learning as I get older, it’s that I still have so much to learn – about everything, and especially about and from BIPOC, LGBTQ and other minorities and marginalized groups. And I consider myself a feminist, but always, in my mind, with an asterisk beside it.
Some days, I’m not even sure I know what feminism means. I was recently reading about TERFs (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists) and I pretty much threw up my hands because … honestly? If the “feminist” label can be applied to something like this, it becomes meaningless. I feel like every discussion of feminism now has to come with a preamble that clearly spells out what is intended to be meant by the term, so that everyone participating in the discussion can be on the same page at least in understanding the context. So here is my asterisk.
That being said, feminism to me is not concerned with a person’s choices – only their agency. That’s what I mean when I say that it’s not a value system. Religion is a value system. It says that Choice A is morally superior to Choice B for X Reasons. The only way I can see feminism approaching that kind of territory is when it comes to choices that may impact other people’s agency (their ability to make unconstrained choices for themselves). So, for example, I can agree that denying another person access to basic human rights (bodily autonomy and safety, food, shelter, medical care, education, etc.) is an unfeminist act. The farther the discussion moves away from those kinds of choices or acts, the less I am willing to concede that we are still talking about feminism.
I also think there is a dangerous fallacy that feminism means blindly supporting other people’s choices. I don’t believe it does. Let me repeat it again: feminism is not a system concerned with values. I support others’ right to make their own choices, free from constraints related to things like gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. Feminism doesn’t mean that I have to support or, in other words, place equal value or worth in every choice another woman makes, simply because we are both women. I can decide, for myself, the value system by which to live my life. What I can’t do, as a feminist, is impose my value system on another person. I might think someone is dead wrong in a choice they make, but as long as they’re not hurting someone else or denying another person their rights, then it’s not incumbent on me (as a feminist) to do anything about it.
Do people get to have opinions (or value judgments) about my choices? Of course. I have lots of opinions too. Are they entitled to tell me their opinions? Entitled is the wrong word here, though it gets thrown about a lot, but they are certain free to tell me their opinion. I am equally free when it comes to the way I choose to respond. But nothing about that discussion has to do with feminism. Perhaps the only feminist thing about it might be the fact (assumption?) that it involves two people who each feel empowered to make choices for themselves.
So, to wrap up on my original thesis, Botox is neither a feminist nor unfeminist choice. My choice to get Botox does not prevent you from choosing to not get Botox, nor does it invalidate or undermine that choice. You might say, “but, Adina, your choice is supporting a patriarchal expectation for women to look a certain way.” And to that I would say, “and how is that different than being told that I must look some other way instead?” My feminism means ensuring that people’s choices about how they look does not constrain their ability and opportunity to make other choices in their life. [An obvious exception is personal attraction. I’m not interested in dictating what other people find attractive. But, like, I don’t care if my doctor likes to dress like a goth, or has cornrows, or gets Botox. It’s entirely irrelevant to our socio-economic relationship, and I would hate to know that someone choose not to pursue a medical career because they didn’t feel their personal appearance would allow them to do that.]
Well, that was a whole lot more writing than I meant to do, so let’s leave it here for now. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk 🙂
Oh dear, I saw that initial comment on your post and thought it was a troll, but didn’t realize they’d responded to you. You handled it very graciously, I thought, now that I’ve seen the whole exchange. I always admire people I follow who are able to gracefully but pointedly engage with trolls/people who are commenting in bad faith, the problem has never come up for me at my own blog (surprising, given that I’ve been writing for years now, and often get into controversial topics! I’ve had maybe only one comment the entire time that included maybe a single point in a paragraph-long comment that could be perceived as unkind, but because the person was otherwise engaging with my ideas substantively and in reasonably good faith, I could shrug it off).
I find the Twitter and Instagram comment worlds fascinating (and they’re very different of course, but I find them similarly mystifying because I’m so bad at both platforms, and I think they have some of the same issues with many people not thinking enough before they speak), not least of all because, er, it seems to make every single person think they have the right to insert themselves into conversations even though their position turns out to be… extremely uneducated. It’s particularly fascinating to see it play out on Twitter, where all these laypeople come out to try and “school” an actual doctor or lawyer on their area of study. (I’m sure it happens to women in other fields as well, but those are just the people I follow.) In one particularly absurd example, some other (far less well-credentialed, I might add) lawyer tried to “correct” Courtney Milan on the proper abbreviation of Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s name for internal court administrative things. Ms. Milan clerked for Justice O’Connor, and is, therefore, undeniably correct about this topic. Though to be fair to this dude, he did apologize and admit he was wrong.
I probably haven’t researched TERFs enough to say for sure, but I felt similarly to you: if they can call themselves feminists, then the term “feminism” has become meaningless.
I think there is always a place for constructive disagreement or debate or what have you, but a lot of people aren’t interested in an actual exchange of positions, ideas, etc. They’re just using their opinion as a cudgel. And as you said, opinions can be well informed and thought out … or not. But the internet is an equalizer in that regard.
I’ve gone back and forth on this, but I don’t think this person was a true troll in the real sense of that word. Like, I don’t think they were just winding me up (or trying) for the hell of it. But passive aggressiveness drives me nuts, which is why I ended up engaging longer than I probably should have. Like, if you have a strong enough opinion that you leave me a comment, don’t hide behind BS post facto arguments or stuff like “sorry you were offended”. You wanted me to be offended. Own it.
Yes! Wholeheartedly agree. Feminism is about equality and agency. Can we talk about our choices? Of course, but policing other people’s decisions is not what feminism is about. It’s like…shitting on a celebrity for wearing provocative clothes or berating a friend for getting their butt done. You may not agree with their decisions, but they are in their right to live their lives and make their choices.
Absolutely. Live and let live. The older I get, the more I try to remind myself that my opinions are not nearly as interesting or valuable to anyone but myself.
Yeah, I find it hard to get too worked up about any of it. Everyone is somewhere on a spectrum of trying to conform to social norms about appearance, unless you actually don’t shower and walk around naked. I don’t do Botox but I did electrolysis and go to the gym. It’s hard to really see the difference.
I so agree!
VERY well put, Adina!
An important distinction regarding feminism that is superbly & clearly described. I am in complete agreement.
Teresa from Ontario!
Thank you, Teresa. I was a bit nervous to post this, as it can be a touchy subject. I appreciate everyone who is willing to engage in a good discussion, though, and so far so good 🙂
It took me a while to see it (I can get judgy at times, not perfect at all) but yes, feminism is not about dictating a particular set of choices but about demanding the freedom of every woman to make her own, personal choices, whatever they might be. I’m sorry you had to deal with that. Must be our patriarcal conditioning that doesn’t let us trust that the choices other women make, even if we do not agree with them, are valid and belong only to them.
When I was younger, I was way more judgmental than now. I thought I had it all figured out, lol! But that’s the benefit of getting older – you realize how little you know, and that diversity keeps the world spinning.
Anyway, this wasn’t a terrible comment in the scheme of things. It did make me think about some interesting things, like this topic, so there’s that too.
This resonated with me. I had a college professor who asked me why I was doing the whole SoCal blonde and tanned thing when I could write like I do. I told him that he was there to judge my work, not how I chose to present myself to function in society. He argued with me but then thought about it and later apologized. We each pick how present ourselves and those choices should be respected. If you voluntarily put yourself in the public eye, though, you do have to expect engagement and feedback that would be inappropriate in other settings.
You mean snark? I suppose so – in the sense that you cannot control what people say in an open forum. I’ve thought about this a lot, having been on both sides of question. But at the end of the day, I don’t think the rules of etiquette have or should change if you’re engaging online. So yes, people can say whatever they want, but that doesn’t suddenly make rudeness become “constructive criticism” or whatever. I do think the term “troll” gets thrown around way too much, and that’s not what I’m talking about here (or have experienced). Sometimes it just seems like a social media comment section makes me people lose their filter.
In U.S. libel law we treat private citizens and those who have put themselves in the public eye differently, with the notion that the latter have voluntarily invited opinions about their actions or expressed views. Now anyone can step into the public forum, and it seems reasonable that by doing so you do open yourself up to commentary that you would not get in a private setting. There is of course a line, it’s just not the same line you would have if you were not in the public eye.
I find myself examining my motives about things like Botox….mascara, haircolour, fashion…. I question my own choices and why I’m making them.
And then I come to an answer for myself that I’m happy with & carry on.
Love your thinking on this one.
Yes!
I’m ALL for critical consumption of media and self-reflection. And I think it is also important and valuable to have a conversation about our reflections (especially when they diverge from each other’s) but I believe that should be in the spirit of learning about different perspectives not indoctrination.
My philosophy as of late is: you do you boo boo.
Honestly as a friend if you did get too much done and start looking a bit scary, I’d say something but I wouldn’t judge.
People do what they want to feel their best the same way I like wearing heels to feel confident and taller even if people think I do it to hobble my feet in some misguided notion to be feminine and to be unable to walk the same way as a man who does not feel the need to wear heels
Bla bla bla whatever.
Same here. And I might say something to a VERY close friend in the situation you describe, but honestly? It would be awkward AF, so it would have to be a BFF or something. Otherwise I’m gonna mind my own business (she can see what she looks like, so presumably she either loves it. Or worse, doesn’t and doesn’t want to be reminded of it) Same principle applies to online interactions, IMO.
Hello Adina,
I read your blog but don’t always comment. However, this thoughtfully written treatise on feminism compelled me to write. There are many things I appreciate about your “Ted talk”, but the one I like the most is how you neither confirmed nor denied the allegations of Botox, but focused instead on the importance of female agency.
I find that the same ol’ problems we have always had (of social pressures to fit women into conventionally accepted modes) are being repackaged by “influencers” and “wellness experts” and “celebrities” into this rather ubiquitous pressure to be…something or someone I am not. We’re still living in an Edith Wharton novel, but with more technology.
And so, despite my influencer fatigue, I am so glad to find your intelligent engagement here.
Honestly, I went back and forth on whether to address the “elephant” in the room, but at the end of the day, it wasn’t relevant to what I wanted to talk about. I certainly don’t feel that I have anything to hide, but I decided that addressing the issue head on would undermine my main point – that what matters is our agency, not our actual choices.
I have lots of opinions/thoughts about influencer culture (and I don’t consider myself one although having this public platform certainly informs my feelings) — too many to share here — and I understand where you’re coming from.
I would love to hear/read your thoughts on influencer culture. I actually don’t think of you that way, mainly because of your decision not to monetize your blog.
This is a communal space for shared interest, which is a haven. I can appreciate your point of view, your individuality, your willingness to share your interests with strangers such as I. And what I get out of it is the creative “friction” that comes from seeing something through another’s perspective—-and so “sparks” new modes of living.
I credit your blog in pushing me to take advantage of the yard sales near my neighborhood as a way to stock my house and closet. I was hesitant about it, and your blog made me go: “wel, why not?” And I’ve not looked back since! Aside from saving money (which then goes elsewhere, as alas I don’t have much disposable income), I find the exercise of seeking serendipity on Saturday mornings as a tangible way to be grateful. And during hard days and weeks, such reminders are wonderfully refreshing.
So, your blog and Instagram are fun to visit… and I just wanted to tell you that…in return for all the content you put out there, just because. I hope it stays fun and interesting to you.
Thank you so much for taking the time to leave your comment – it really affirms for me what I want and hope for this blog to be. You put it perfectly; it’s a space I want to share with people who are interested in the same things and who (hopefully) enjoy my writing about those things.
I’ve had the privilege from the beginning to not be in a position where I would be seriously tempted to monetize, and I think I value the blog more for all the opportunities I didn’t pursue in that regard. And I do value all the readers who have stuck with me through the years – your voices make ME look at things in new ways.
I also share your feelings about serendipity (it’s like you read my mind!) being one of the best parts of my thrifting hobby. I regularly feel like a lottery winner, and it reminds me of how fortunate and lucky I am, and how grateful I need to be.
I’m going to mull over an influencer post 😉
“Feminism is not a value system.” That nails everything. I want that on a shirt.
And agreed TERFs may be a lot of things (unpleasant things I won’t recount here but colorful language would be employed) but feminists they are not. In my mind feminism is not about hate or superiority. I like you have lessened my judgemental nature (a lot of which was driven by my very religious upbringing and tremendously judgemental dad). Is it hurting me or anyone else? Is some one forcing me to wear something against my will? If the answers are no, live and let live.